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Very interesting. I remember a while back, I stumbled into an area on a social networking site - I believe it was mySpace, where college students were rating and discussing their professors. Since although I'm not an instructor I work at a university, I was surprised and dismayed to see some of the comments about some of the people I work with, as well as former professors who had been mentors and top-notch educators in my college days.

Pam,

Thank you for your comment.

Although we in the United States are allowed the freedom to express ourselves, I can only imagine how I would feel,if anonymous people, perhaps those I work with, would bash or berate me online? As I mentioned in this posting, it is one thing to voice your thoughts and opinions to your friends, but to publish it online, is another matter.

Many are unaware of this particular site. It's my job, to change that.

Well this was fascinating. I had no idea this even existed. First I put in my son's grammar school because in all honesty I was hoping that school was on line and unfortunately it wasn't. Then I put in my youngest son's school and it was online.

I'm a little different than most people because I can see two sides to every arguement. Here's my first thought though. I do believe there is no more important role than a teacher in a child's life. And that role is sacrosanct. And I'm sorry, you don't get any passes from me. And here's why. Everybody burns out. They just do. And my oldest son went through some experiences with a few teachers at a parochial grammar school that were totally uncalled for. Those experiences caused us to pull my middle son out of the school and put him into a public school. My middle son followed my oldest son to a private high school. I think about what if we had no options and we were in a public school. What if we were poor? And that crappy crummy burned out teacher was in the public school? What then? Should poor people have the right and the capacity to rate crummy crappy teachers? YES. They should. Now this may not be the greatest answer, but at least its a start. Its a form of expression. And I gotta tell you I would love to have been able to rate these crappy crummy teachers that needed to go get a new life...they were burned out...they didn't like children anymore. They hated them. They hated their jobs. They were simply going through the motions. And it had nothing to do with teaching...it had to do with being burned out. We all see every day everywhere. And the post office, at the restaurant, in the motel, on the other end of the phone. You meet that person who just HATES their life. Now, here's my perspective. Adults can deal with burned out people, but CHILDREN should not have to deal with BURNED OUT adults.

Ev,

Great posting!!! Thank you for your view from "the other side"....

As mentioned previously, most of us have had both good and not-so-good teachers in our lives, or those of our children's.

Although it would be perhaps informative to hear the good and the bad regarding teachers, we must remember these are children writing these anonymous postings. The Internet gives many a feeling of anonymity--without reprecussions. That is one reason cyber bullying/stalking/harassment is growing rapidly. No consequences for ones words or actions.

Publishing defamatory, hurtful, hateful comments online, while hiding behind ones anonymity, not only hurts ones feelings, but can hurt someones reputation with no way to defend ones self.

Thanks, Ev!!

As the mother of six children, three out of school and three still attending, I've dealt with too many teachers to list. Most are wonderful; a handful should be in a different profession.

Considering only what I've observed first hand, I do believe that a site that allows kids to vent about bad teachers is not just okay, but is vital. Some of these teachers can be quite intimidating; the frustration that builds in students needs to be released. And let's face it, complaining about a teacher to "higher ups" does absolutely no good.The omnipotent teacher's union will protect the horrendous teachers right along with the good ones.

I dealt with my frustration with two teachers by writing formal letters and sending them to the teacher, the principal and every member of the Board of Education. I knew several other parents with similar issues who also wrote letters. Both teachers continued in the school system until each retired.

Maybe these kids have a better idea.

Hi Marisa. Thank you for your comment and your views.

As with most professions or occupations, there seems to be one, or two, bad apples in every bunch. We all need to vent from time to time, no matter how old(or young) we are.

On the one hand, it may be helpful to see both sides of the story, the positives as well as the negatives. There are ways to say negative things, to disagree, to share another side or opinion.

However, when posting something hateful or hurtful online, with no name or face attached, for hundreds or thousands to see, with no way to defend ones self, the damage can be detrimental.

I suppose we have different perspectives.

During a parent/student exchange (200 parents switched places with their kids for a day) I sat with a half dozen other parents in an English class. The teacher lectured for a few minutes then asked a question. A boy raised his hand and answered, incorrectly.

The teacher responded to the incorrect answer by saying, "No. And rather than embarrass yourself and the rest of us with the wrong answer, why don't you think before you raise your hand or say nothing?"

That was 10 years ago and I can hear those words like it was yesterday. I can only imagine how that student was affected. You can be concerned about the detriment done to ADULTS by the hurtful words of children. I'm much more concerned about the lifelong damage done to children by cruel teachers who don't belong in the classroom. Where is your outrage over that? Where is the blog post demanding that these kinds of teachers are dismissed and NOT backed up by the too-powerful NEA?

For the record, my son begged me to say nothing about this teacher because she actually liked my son and he was concerned how she'd treat him if I caused trouble. So I waited until the end of the year to write and send my letter. And if ratemyteacher.com had been available back in 96 when this happened, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would have been there posting about it.

Frankly, I'm tired of coddling bad teachers.

I am a teacher, so maybe my opinion doesn't count. As Ev said above, many teachers are terrible, burned out, etc. The thing that people don't realize is that in general, these are the teachers that students LIKE. The teachers that students rate poorly are the ones that take their job seriously! Very few students like a teacher who actually wants to do a good job because to students the "good" teachers are those who let them run the show. Except for a small minority, students in K-12 don't care if a teacher is good as we would like to define good. They think a good teacher is the ones who let them do whatever they want, let them have "free time" and have few expectations of behavior or academics. Teachers who actually have rules and expectations that they enforce are hated by students. As a parent, I want my child to have teachers who they think are "unfair" and "mean."

Great discussion. I am glad I stopped by. Thanks for visiting my blog.

Mr. Guy, Of course your opinion counts!!

No matter what profession one is in, there are people who excel and do a fantastic job, and those who do not.

In the past 5 years, I have worked with children grades K-3 and 7-12. The teachers I have worked with, are hard working professionals who care deeply for children.

I agree with your assesment that most teachers who are strict, are generally not liked and visa versa. I can not tell you how many times I was called a variety of names, because I wrote detentions(after many warnings) or sent someone to the office.

Thank you for offering a teachers point of view to this posting!!! Have a great day!

Marissa.

The purpose of this particular posting is to inform people that this type of website is online.

This blog is not about bashing teachers nor any other profession. This website is dedicated and devoted to educating parents, teachers, law enforcement and others in order to keep all children safe on the Internet.

Thank you.

I agree very much with Mr. Guy. My students say I am "mean" and that my rules are "gay", but most of my rules follow the school and district rules, which is simply my job. My personal classroom rules, such as no food or drink in the classroom, no horseplay or foul language, are in place to keep every student in my room safe. My academic expectations, such as you must do your homework or fail the class, I don't think are too much to ask. I do believe that I am strict and I believe teachers need to be strict in order to maintain control of their classroom. The old addage, "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" definitely holds true when it comes to teaching, and I do have students, well behaved ones who realize what I am trying to do, who agree that it is pertinent for teachers to be strict to keep order in the classroom and maintain an environment conducive to learning. The students who "hate" me are the ones who do not want to follow my most basic of rules. They get angry when they see that they are failing after not having done an ounce of homework. They get angry when I make them clean up after themselves. They get angry when I hold them accountable for their actions and words. Basically, they get angry and begin not to like you as a teacher if you do not let them do whatever they want and get away with it. The way I look at my profession is, I am not only preparing these students for their academic and professional futures, I am preparing them to live successfully in society. I do not let them get away with things in my room that they would not get away with in a workplace. I don't think that constitutes me being a "bad" teacher, I think that means I am going above and beyond my call of duty.

I also do not agree with these people who talk about "burnt out" teachers. To these people I ask, how do you think they became so "burnt out"? Could it be from dealing with unbelievealbly undisciplined children and teenagers all day every day? Could it be because in many cases we, their teachers, are doing most of the raising of these young people as well as teaching them their basic education?

Ugly naked guy,
I disagree with you. My son's favorite teacher in grammar school was their toughest teacher. I can have 20 kids in my house at any given time because I have very stringent rules and very high standards. Everyone has to follow the same rules. And for whatever reason, I do not have a problem with kids understanding that I do NOT FOOL AROUND. RULES ARE RULES IN MY HOUSE. But, here's the thing. I enjoy being with kids. There is a big difference between setting a high bar and being a burned out teacher. While I agree there may be kids rating teachers as crappy because they don't want to work, I think it is ridiculous to assume that all kids rating teachers poorly are because they don't want to work. That's ludicrous. Unfortunately, the site isn't a great answer, but for now maybe it's the best.

Here's the reality, children can be incredibly cruel. I have a child with special needs and I am amazed by how cruel kids are. Where do they learn it? At home? While ratemyteacher.com may not be the greatest answer....it is an open forum and teacher's are not sacrosanct. Their job is sacrosanct. Without a doubt, their profession is so grossly underpaid it is an aberration.

Think about how the profession would change if teachers were paid $500,0000 a year. Consider for one moment, the talent that would be breaking down the doors to get in. Sort of mind boggling isn't it?

Think you would have burned out teachers? I doubt it. Think you would have teacher's unions? I doubt it. Teacher's would stop complaining and start working a lot harder wouldn't they?

Dear Interested Readers

Teachers are no strangers to criticism. On a weekly basis here in Australia we wake to see headlines deriding standards and the outcomes produced. Everyone is an expert when it comes to education. After all most people have been to school. I therefore think that many teachers will not be overly concerned about the presence of "Rate My Teacher dot com".

There seems to me to be a number of issues here and I do not profess to have all the answers.

First there is the fact that there are bad teachers in schools. This unfortunately is a fact and I don't see it changing any time soon. That is not to say that I excuse bad teaching or bad teachers. There are bad doctors, bad plumbers, bad hairdressers. There will always be people who are bad at their job. The unfortunate and worrying thing is that bad teachers have an impact on children. In Queensland where I teach the education department recently took the extraordinary step of offering teachers who were "burnt out" $50,000 to leave the profession.

The second point to consider relates to how we react to bad teachers. The best way to deal with this situation in my experience is take the matter directly to the Principal of the school. I don't mean a 5 minute phone call or even a strongly worded letter but a face to face meeting where the issues are discussed in a rational and calm manner. I am in no way suggesting that the other correspondents here have not done this or acted in a negative way. However, my experience is that in many cases where a complaint is made against a teacher it is done in a very adversarial and non-rational way that is detrimental to a positive outcome for the child. This is perhaps understandable when people's children are at risk but still is not best for the child in the long run.

Finally some specific comments about "Rate My Teacher dot com". I have mixed feelings about this website. I recognise that students have a right to express themselves (I won't comment on the "Right to Free Speech" as set out in the Constitution of the USA where this site is hosted as I am not well read in this area). Part of me has no problem whatsoever with students making comments about their teachers, whether positive or negative. Personally, I would not mind if I appeared on the site (I don't at the time of writing although my school is listed) and would accept criticism and in fact would reflect on any such criticism in an attempt to improve my teaching. What does concern me are unfounded attacks on teachers or malicious comments that can ruin reputations and careers. There is an inherent danger in comments and judgments made from the safety of anonymity. While I defend the rights of people to to have their say I also believe that there needs to be a level of accountability for these comments. Once something is written on the internet it is there for a very long time and it is impossible to foresee how this information will be used in the long term. Will future job prospects be unfairly affected by comments made on this site? For good or bad this website is not going anywhere. My conclusion is that it will do harm to some teachers who don't deserve it and will achieve absolutely nothing towards improving the standard of teaching. As for students needing a place to "vent" their frustrations they have been doing that since long before the internet. Should the site be banned in schools? Of course it should - students are at school to learn, they should not be wasting precious computer resources on a website such as this during school time.

Thanks for reading

Scott McNamara

Ev:

What an interesting discussion! Sounds like you are the type of parent whose children it would be a joy to teach. Unfortunately, you are in a very small minority and our public schools show it. I live and teach in an upper-middle class area--we're not talking inner-city--but sometimes it seems like the only thing kids learn at home is how to dress like a gang-banger. I would have probably agreed with you four years ago; When I became a teacher, a lot of the things I thought I knew have turned out to be false.

One of the things that I thought then and still believe after four years of teaching is that teachers are NOT underpaid. The union propaganda machine has successfully propagated that and they continue to do so. I'm definitely not underpaid, but my union doesn't want anyone to believe that, so they keep repeating that lie over and over again so that not only does almost everyone believe it, those who don't keep their mouths shut and play along so they don't look foolish. Few politicians will criticize teachers because, as you say, they are sacrosanct. Oh, on the money issue again, I don't think education would be measurably better if teachers were paid $500,000--you'd get a lot more people who want to be teachers, but until you dismantle the union, there is not much you can do with whether they are good or not. Whether or not you have a good work ethic, care about kids, etc., is not something that can be controled by how much you get paid. Ultimately it is about character, and you can't buy character. Believe me, I have met plenty of well-paid losers who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag and would run screaming from the classroom during the first week.

I am sorry, but paying 500k would not attract "the best and the brightest"; it would just attract the people who want to make 500K.

-A teacher who tries his best and if that doesn't work, tries something else.

Ugly naked guy,
I stand corrected, Thank you. However, you maybe one of a few that would say you aren't underpaid. I congratulate on being one of few with character. Sounds like I'd want you teaching my children. And as far as high paid losers, we must know the same people! I'm not a teacher and not in the teaching profession there is much I do not know.

What I do know is from a parents perspective. Probably 25% of the teachers in my children's grammar school were burnt out. However, in middle school and high school they have probably only run into a 5% burn out rate---teachers that need to leverage their careers into other professions.

Here's the reality, it doesn't matter what you do, teacher, doctor, nurse, everybody burns out. It's a fact of life. The important point is to recognize it before you do damage to yourself and others. The problem with teachers is they affect children. Doctors affect lives.

However, you can knee the dentist in the family jewels when he drills into your tooth right? And a corpse can haunt a surgeon and scare the crap out of him. What recourse does a child have?

Fact is no matter who you are, no matter what you do, everybody burns out. Just recognize it.

To the "good" teacher,
Here's my question to the good teacher. You asked "how do you think they became burned out? Could it from dealing with unbelievably undisciplined children and teenagers all day every day? could it ....."

Ms. Good Teacher here's the issue. It doesn't matter how any teacher got burned out. It doesn't matter what causes it. Its doesn't matter who did what to whom. It's almost as if you are justifying burn out with, "they did it to me".

Consider surgeon screaming, "how many freaking hearts do you want me to fix?? Will you stop breaking? Stop eating all those freaking potato chips you losers."

Now think about how freaking ludicrous that is. Here's the reality of life. EVERYONE GETS BURNED OUT. WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH DO YOU THINK A TEACHER SHOULDN'T GET BURNED OUT? Why because you're a teacher? What are you serious? That's even more reason why you should get burned out? I would. EVERYBODY DOES...SO DO YOU! Living in denial is what causes problems!

Just because you were a good teacher once, doesn't mean you still are. Heck, I used to be a great Mom. Ask my kids, they'll tell you how stupid I am now. When they were 1-12 I was brilliant. Now they are 17 and 18 and I'm incredibly stupid. So, there you go. Amazingly I have dummed down.

Seriously, Look at any profession. Everyone at some point, needs to move on. Micky Mantle did. Ok, so you aren't play pro-baseball. What about Allen Iverson? OK. he's still playing.basketball. But Bette Davis did have better days didn't she? And Michael Jordan finally did retire. Cher isn't strutting her stuff on stage naked anymore. What's that tell you?

Let's face it, I"m 50, I can't freaking see anymore. I'm just not a sharp as I used to be. The people that I know that used to "web designers", the new designers can spin webs around them.

Surgeons. Come on. Once you're 35, you're over the hill. OK. Joking. But Wall street analysts, executives, Board Dirctors, nurses, everybody gets burnt out.

Why do you think you a teacher is sacrocant? You are not. Your JOB IS. THAT'S THE POINT.

And I hate to tell you this...but I'm holding teachers to a higher standard. Anyone who has mass influence over children...Sorry. That's where I draw the line. You influence mass children, you are held to ah igher standard. Too much heat...you know what they say.

Even the Bible states teachers must be held to a higher standard. So TEACHERS IN PARTICULAR ARE NOT GETTING ANY PASSES FROM ME.

Since I study humanity for a living,.I know for a fact everybody burns out. SHOW ME ONE PROFESSION THAT DOES NOT.

There are gifted people that can stay in the same job every day forever because they look at life with child like eyes. Show me a teacher who sees life through eyes of a child and I see a gifted teacher.

Now I may have this distorted view because I can't see anymore. And in that case, just ignore everything I jsut said. Also, I've dummed down. Ask my son who's a college freshman and my junior in high school. I can hardly wait until I'm brilliant again. I guess I'll have to wait to take those special brain vitamins!

I was going to fix my mistakes in this post, but I'm too old and past my bedtime, so you'll have to work through the errors on your own. Sorry. Pathetic Perfectionist has retired.

Thank all of you for your comments!! It sure sparked some very interesting discussion!!!

While teachers, police, clergy, physicians may in fact be held to a higher standard--be it good or bad, they too, are human.

While some of you may have concerns or issues regarding teachers, be it burn out, salary or bad teachers, the purpose of this post was to inform and educate readers that this RMT type website exists.

While this type of site may offer some positive aspects, anonymously posting hurtful, hateful, cruel, derrogatory remarks about a named person, be it a teacher or someone in another profession, is the real issue. Not being able to defend yourself, a ruined reputation, a tarnished career, perhaps loosing your job due to anonymous postings, is the issue. Scott, a teacher, could not have said it better.

Just a quick testimony to how some students think and react… When I was in the classroom as a teacher, I always prided myself on having a trusting relationship with my students. I wanted them to feel comfortable stating their opinions. On more than one occasion I would over hear a student making a harsh comment about something I had done. After speaking with the student directly and explaining my side of things or why I took a certain course of action, nine times out of ten they would apologize for what they had said and state that they hadn’t realized what I was thinking. There were never any hard feelings between me and the students after the conversations. There was a problem and we solved it. Done deal. That is something that many people are forgetting with posting things to the Internet. Even after the situation in defused, it is not a ‘done deal.’ The comments are still floating around out there even though the person has changed their thoughts ten minutes after clicking submit. We are making it harder and harder for children to undo things that they regret. And not taking the time to teach them a more responsible way of dealing with their feelings. So is giving students an outlet to express their feelings good? Yes. Is creating a permanent record of those momentary feelings good? No.

Thank you, Heather,for another great point!! We must remember, things published online, good, bad or in between,are often permanent records. Things posted today, may haunt you tomorrow.

After reading the initial posting, introducing us to the site that allows students to "rate" their teachers, I dove into the postings to see what others were writing about such a site.

I teach in a middle school, and I must say that I agree...the ones that students bash are the ones who care the most about their jobs. Our school is listed, and those teachers that are bashed (not rated) are the ones who have a passion for teaching others, a desire to help students learn and to make a difference in their lives.

This is just simply another method of students venting, much like we would have quietly/verbally when we were their age...not with the intent of grouping a hatred from others toward a teacher we simply didn't like because of a grade that we earned from them. (note a grade earned...not simply given). I think that it is a complete shame that someone has the audacity to create such a site to allow children to publically slander or bash others.

Someone please tell me what happened to adults acting like...just that...adults and teaching children things like "respect for their elders". I think that all teachers take on a HUGE task in undertaking the career they chose. In spite of disrepect from a few and lack of self respect from others, teachers stay in it for the fight...to make a difference and to TEACH children not just school lessons, but LIFE lessons...like...respect.